Catch Richard Matthews on the #PirateBroadcast™
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Introduction: [00:00:00] Welcome to the #PirateBroadcast™, where we interview #interestingpeople doing #interestingthings. Where you can expand your connections, your community, #kindnessiscool and #smilesarefree. Let’s get this party started.
Russ Johns: [00:00:10] I love the #PirateBroadcast™ and the community here. And so many in the community have this ambition and this idea that starting a podcast is a good thing. And I have been podcasting, broadcasting, live streaming for years. And after literally over a thousand episodes back and forth on different podcasts and creating podcasts. I want to talk today about podcasting and today we're going to talk to Richard. He's a podcast agency, been in podcasting for a while, and we're going to dig deep and dive in and share a few stories about podcasting. And really what it means and what it can deliver to your business and your brand. So Richard, welcome to the #PirateBroadcast™.
Richard Matthews: [00:00:57] Awesome. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.
Russ Johns: [00:00:59] It's really interesting because there's so many when you're in the podcasting space, it seems like there's so many podcasts. However, when you look at the bigger picture and you zoom out. It's still a small industry and growing quickly. And so what have you seen since you first got into podcasting?
Richard Matthews: [00:01:25] I've seen a lot of things. And when you said a second ago, when you back up a little bit, you see a different picture and it reminded me one of my one of the guys I follow in the investing space. He said, when in doubt, zoom out. And it's always a good thing when you're looking at your industries or need a doubt, zoom out and take a look at what the what's actually happening on macro stuff instead of in the the micro aspects of any community. And I know it was just this last year. So actually it was probably 2019, I think podcasting overtook radio for listenership. Which is huge, right? Because radio has been one of the largest audiences in history. And podcasting overtook that just over. Over for 2019 and then 2020 happened. And we all know what 2020 was like and podcasting, went through the roof in terms of consumption and our own podcasts. We went from publishing once a week to publishing twice a week, all through the pandemic stuff. Which was just cause there was more people looking to listen looking to have good positive stories and that kind of stuff. So podcasting is growing. And then the other thing that's happened on a macro trend is podcasting went from becoming, or from being just a radio show. Like an online radio show where it was just audio, the term has expanded to become any type of multimedia show that's happening on a regular basis, right? So your Facebook lives or your Periscope live shows or your YouTube shows or your podcasts that are legitimately audio only and showing up on Apple iTunes and whatnot. But a lot of multimedia shows that happen on a regular basis, right? They happen every Monday or happen every Thursday or happen three times a week, at whatever time. All of those things have come under the umbrella of the term podcasting. So the term itself has actually expanded a lot in the last couple of years. And a lot of people don't realize that anytime you have that recurring content where you have your hosts, your show or your content, that's coming out on a regular basis, that's all come under the umbrella term of podcasting.
Russ Johns: [00:03:10] It is fascinating because more and more people are recognizing the term. They're recognizing that it's out there. Some people have regular podcasts that they listen to. Hopefully you're listening to the #PirateBroadcast™. So go out there and subscribe if you're not already subscribed. And the idea that we can actually create content on a regular basis and sit down and develop that. Push this out every single day is amazing to me. Cause you know, I grew up in the broadcasting world. I was in advertising in 85. So been a few days for being in advertising and just the transition. What's that?
Richard Matthews: [00:03:52] I said I was born in 85.
Russ Johns: [00:03:54] So there you go. as long as you've been living, but that's the beauty of it, Richard, that's the beauty of it is that we're all in a different space in time. And we all have a thread, a common thread and a common goal that we can come together on and share ideas. I believe that we're living in the most amazing time because you can pick up your phone and start a podcast. You can pick up your phone and create content, you can broadcast immediately. And the whole idea with the #PirateBroadcast™ was in the FCC days in the radio days, if you didn't have a license and you didn't have permission and you didn't pay your dues and you were broadcasting, you are considered a pirate. You're a pirate broadcaster. And so the idea that we can all accomplish this goal then is to me, phenomenal.
Richard Matthews: [00:04:44] To further that point you can broadcast from anywhere. I'm like right now, my little studio that I'm in is in the back bedroom of an RV, my wife and I travel full time with our kids around the country. And so if I move this camera around a little bit, you can see I'm in the back of an RV here. There's a bathroom over that direction. And there's a bed behind me. I'm in an RV and we travel the country full time and I have produced more than 200 episodes of our podcast. And on interviews like this, in what my friends call my mobile command studio. So you can legitimately do this from anywhere.
Russ Johns: [00:05:17] I love that. That idea is just to me it's very freeing. It's very available to anyone. And so how long have you been podcasting, Richard?
Richard Matthews: [00:05:27] So I have I have been doing, let me see ...if we expand the term a little bit, to include like live broadcasts and other things that I've been doing with clients and in my own podcast, I've been doing it since about 2015. I've probably been on more than a thousand lives. Everything from webinars to live shows to actual podcasts and we've used live broadcasts to sell several million dollars worth of content and product and everything. So we've done all sorts of stuff at that. My own podcast, the hero show. I started a couple of years ago and I remember we got like the first like eight episodes recorded and I got the first three out before I realized it was an metric, crap ton of work to do all of the post-production and publishing. And I didn't actually get the other five episodes of the eight I recorded done for two more years. And that's actually where our agency, Push Button Podcasts was born because I was like, I knew I couldn't do all the work. So we ended up building Push Button Podcasts as an agency for my own podcast. And then all of my friends were like, all of my business community members were like, hey, we want that for our podcasts too. So Push Button Podcast was born. And since that time, so that was about almost two years ago. I guess a little less than a year and a half ago, our Push Button Podcast agency has helped the hero show publish, I think we're on 160 episodes. And that's, for me, it's been completely hands off. I don't do anything for our podcast, except show up, interview and leave. And Push Button Podcasts takes care of everything else. I've been doing I think a little over a year and a half of recording. And I recorded four or five episodes a month and that's all I do for that podcast. And it's a lot of fun.
Russ Johns: [00:06:58] I love the idea. Yeah. Building systems and making it easy or simple, seamless would be a better word to develop the process is, as it goes from one, you content create, you record and then you hand it off. Somebody else does some more work and then you continue to build on that work. And that's essentially what I've done with the #PirateBroadcast™. Tracie is the producer. I've built these systems and created this process that once the show is completed, that has turned into a podcast, the transcription is completed and then it's a post. And then it's up by the end of the day. I'm on all favorite podcasting platforms. I'm on live stream. I'm on YouTube and multiple platforms, and it's a great way... it's a seamless way and removes the friction to create a lot of content in very short period of time. And so building these systems out for your agency had to be a relief for you on the production side as well.
Richard Matthews: [00:08:06] Yeah. Yeah. And that's actually our whole goal with with the agency and it was just born out of my own problem that, if you do this all the time with your podcast and I realized real quick that every hour or so of content you produce is eight to 10 hours worth of post-production work when it comes to editing and transcriptions and creating derivative content. And publishing everywhere and announcements and all the things that go into it. That it was like eight to 10 hours of work for every episode. And I was like, I just, I can't do that cause we would starve. We wouldn't be able to do our businesses workout program if we've spent all of our time on the podcast. So we built all the systems and now I've got it to a point where it's legitimately, it's push button for our content creators. So myself included in that because we use the agency on our own podcast that our goal is that, and that's where the name come from is as you push the stop record or the start record button and the stop record button and that's it. And then, the agency takes over and does everything else. And the the systems are super cool. When you actually get down to thinking about how you build systems like that and how we have a whole theory around how you build push button styled systems is, which is, you're using front-loaded decision-making so you can get all this stuff down to each piece, moves down the line seamlessly. And so anyways, it's definitely a fun way to build a business. And when you build systems like that, then you can also turn them into services. And that's where we built the systems and that system turned into a service business that we could we could offer to other people in the marketplace who are looking at hey, I want to be in the podcasting space and I want to have the benefits that go with it. And we say the benefits of podcasting are the three A's right. Attention, authority, and awareness. And those are the things that help you, drive leads and drive sales and drive an audience for your business.
Russ Johns: [00:09:40] I love that idea.
Richard Matthews: [00:09:41] Yeah. So getting into podcasting helps you get there, but it takes a lot of work and we can take all that work off of your plate and just let you do the part that you're good at, which is creating the content and being the expert in your space.
Russ Johns: [00:09:52] Yeah. Build authority, be seen, be heard and be talked about, right?
Richard Matthews: [00:09:57] Yeah.
Russ Johns: [00:09:58] The idea that I know a lot of new podcasters and, pod fade is a real thing. So how do you navigate through the initial growth in podcast as an agency? Because so many podcasters start the podcast and they get 10 podcasts in or seven or eight or whatever the number is and they're saying, nobody's listening to my stuff, nobody's downloading my podcasts, nobody's sharing it. And it takes time. It takes effort and it takes some energy. And so how do you navigate that piece of the puzzle for your community and your clients?
Richard Matthews: [00:10:37] It comes down to managing expectations, and my the other part of our business, but the reason we actually got into the podcasting agency in the first place is I help businesses build what we call heroic brands, which is a whole thing where we take someone who wants to get into the education space and we help them build their brand, build their websites, build their educational products and programs and masterminds and coaching stuff, and build all the sales funnels that go with it. And the last part of that whole process is learning how to build an audience and then get that audience to buy your products and services and become customers of yours. And there's two ways you do that. One of them is you either buy audience. Actually there's three, you can buy, borrow or build an audience, right? So you buy audience with ads, you borrow audience by doing something like coming onto a podcast like yours and getting your people introduced to me. So I'm borrowing your audience at this point. Or you build an audience which is your own. Show your own content production stuff. Like the whole Gary Vee style model of creating content and being everywhere. And so I would teach my clients how to do those three things, and it's the one most people start with as they start with the buying audience, they hire someone who can do the ads and run people to their funnels. Sometimes they'll get on the what I call the podcast train. And they'll go do the borrowing of audience where they'll go and introduce themselves to a lot of people. But the most powerful one is to build your own audience, but it's also the one that takes the most time. So if you do, if you look at it like on a bell curve, on the one side, the fastest way is to buy an audience, but it has the least amount of staying power with people, right? And then you can borrow an audience, which is a little bit better. It's still pretty quick. But again, you're staying power is only as long as that one episode. But if you build an audience that takes time, a lot of it, but you're staying power with that audience can be forever. And so we would talk to our clients and I would teach that whole concept to them. I was like, hey here's what you're looking at. Every business is in one game. The game that you're playing is you're playing the attention game. You have to get someone's attention and you have to turn that attention into customers. You have to turn that into leads and into sales. And essentially, you have those three options to do that. You can buy, borrower, build. And so we would talk to them. I would teach them like here's what you want to do. You want to get into the game, start with buying an audience, get into the interview game where you're starting to borrow some audience and then take the time to build it. So the way that we navigate that whole, like it's going to take time is you have to do more than one thing, right? If you just do the building, your own audience, you're looking at six to eight to 12, maybe 18 months before that audience is big enough to actually turn any revenue for you. So if you are only doing that, you'll starve yourself before your podcast gets to a point where it can drive revenue. The way that we manage that is we help them do all three of those things at once. So you're using the buy in and it's actually really beneficial to do it that way. Cause you can buy audience initially, and get them into your world. And the biggest problem most people have who only do the buy an audience stuff or only do the borrow audience stuff is they don't have any sort of content marketing on their own to keep those people engaged. So the life span of that attention is very short, right? It's they see the ad, they go through your thing and then they're either they buy or they die. And then they're gone. And most people die because we don't have, if you have a better than 51% conversion rate, then you're a God in the marketing world. So most people are going to you buy and then they die, right? So you buy the ads, they see the thing and then they die. But if you combine that with having your own content, your own content stuff, you can use the buying of an audience to get people into your world. And then continually follow up with them with your good content, continue to build that goodwill with them and keep them around. So even though your content isn't driving its own audience yet. It's keeping the audience that you're buying engaged. So it actually, it helps on both sides to do both at the same time. Does that make sense? Like where I'm at from that, and then that helps it helps the businesses who are getting into podcasting see the benefits, both early on and then late stage, right? Because once you get to a point, like our podcast just had 150 episodes live and now we do things like, hey, we were looking, if we go back a year and a half, two years ago when we only had a couple episodes live, trying to get people onto our show was like pulling teeth because we're an unknown entity. Now we've got 160 episodes live and we're like, hey, we'd like to have you on our show. And, last time we put out a request for it, we had 90 people that were like, oh, we'd love to be on your show. And we had to start filtering it the other direction. Yeah. But that takes time to build.
Russ Johns: [00:14:52] It does take time to build and I think consistency is also key. I want to give a shout out to a few of the pirates in the room. Randy McNeely. It's been a minute since you've been here. I thank you so much, you pirate. I love the fact that you're here and thank you so much for showing up. Russ Hedge in from Oregon. Thank you, pirates. Good morning. I hope you're well, I hope you're doing well. And Randy says having a solid process is powerful, absolutely positively. What Richard is dropping in this room right now in this podcast is Gold because there are things that you have to accomplish, there are things and goals that you have to go through in the process. Anything that you can do to have a process is going to help you through that that journey, if you will. Mike Baker, good morning pirates. And he says, serve the needs of your community. Absolutely positively. Consistency. Yes. Mike Baker I like that buy, borrow or build. So I have probably, and I'm really terrible at keeping track of all this. I'm closing in on 370 episodes, so I have over 700 videos out on YouTube. I have a bunch of content out there. I've been creating content for years and it's all organic for the most part. I know I've done a few ads here and there, and I'm thinking about putting some ad spend in there to generate a bit more audience. And so I want to talk about that a little bit. Mike Baker says, it's within life coaching and spiritual guidance in Georgetown, Florida. And then also happy to be here. Randy McNeely says happy to be here. It's been too long. Yes, it has been too long. So let's talk about, let's talk about the growth stage. Cause we go through different stages of growth. You go through the nobody's watching me to you have some episodes and all of a sudden people say, can I be on your podcast? I want to be on your podcast. And I hope the process to get on the #PirateBroadcast™ was pretty simple for you, Richard. I hope you found it to be an enjoyable.
Richard Matthews: [00:17:05] I honestly would have to ask my chief of staff because he does all of that for me. So I just got the link this morning. He was like, hey, you're due to be on this podcast, but I assume it was pretty good. So I honestly don't know how hard it was or not to get on there, but I I would bet it was probably pretty good cause he didn't know anything other than, hey, you're ready. You're ready to get on this this podcast. Yeah.
Russ Johns: [00:17:27] Brilliant. So let's talk about the buy and the purchase process, because I think it's key that it's very strategic. It's developed with intent and there's some things that you can do to optimize the value, the return on your investment.
Richard Matthews: [00:17:43] So just so I'm clear here where we want to talk about talking about getting your audience to buy from you, or talk about how you grow that audience using the buying concepts. So using advertising, that kind of stuff.
Russ Johns: [00:17:53] Growing the audience, using the buying concept.
Richard Matthews: [00:17:55] The way that we with our agency team our audience, how to grow their podcast. And then, if they're actually clients of ours, how we do it for them is a three-stage advertising methodology that works really well. And it's based on a lot of really interesting like top-line metaphors for how you engage with an audience. But I'll walk you through that right now, just so your audience has a really good idea of how they can do this. So the three stages and you can do this on any advertising platform that allows you to do interest based targeting. I'm going to use Facebook as the example, but you could do the same thing on LinkedIn. You could do it on on YouTube. You could do it on Pinterest. So any of the advertising networks that allow you to do interest based targeting, right? Okay. So Google is buying intent style targeting. Someone's hey, my tooth hurts. They're going to type that my tooth hurts in Greer, South Carolina or whatever into Google. That's a different type. So we're not looking at Google ad words, type style stuff. We're looking more at any of your ad networks that are like, hey, I'm targeting people who have blonde hair and drive green cars kind of thing. So interest based targeting, which is a lot of what Facebook is, or like YouTube ads work that way. And so the three stages are you have your first stage, which is a warm audience style targeting. So every time an episode goes live and for most of our content and our shows, our weekly shows in our agency, most of the people that we're working with are running a weekly show. So every week, let's just say it's Monday afternoon, an episode goes live. What we do is we take that episode and if we're running on the Facebook's ad network, we say, hey, take this episode and let's take a dollar a day or maybe $5 a day, depending on how big your audience is. But most of our clients they're getting started. They're not to a point where they can target, their entire audience is not that expensive. So you take stage one and you're targeting your warm audience. So these are all the people who are already connected to you. So your page likes your subscribers, anyone who's visited your website, all of the people who were like, hey, we recognize, know and recognize the pirate name. So you want to target all of those people. And you spend a dollar, $2 a day just promoting that episode to them on that network. And so if you're doing this at a high level, you'll do it on all the major networks. You'll do it on Facebook. You'll do it on YouTube. You'll do it on LinkedIn. Or wherever your audience is hanging out. Instagram is probably a good one as well. And so you target your warm audience and the only goal of that is every week, you just do it for, you do it for seven days, couple dollars a day. And the goal is to get as much of your audience to see that episode as possible, right? Whether or not they're subscribed to your show. And the goal is you do all of your targeting or all of your ...there's a thing in Facebook's like what's the purpose of the ad? The purpose is engagement. So you're just looking for engagement. You want to get the likes and the comments and the shares, and to see how that episode is performing with the people who already know and and trust you. And that's stage one. So every week you do that and stage one is just, you just have regular things like, and you can actually set it up with a feed. Hey, every time a new, if you use like ad espresso or something, they have a thing where every time a podcast goes live, you can put a hashtag in it that says, promote me or something like that and it would automatically feed into your thing every week. It would replace the old ad, but the new one. And you promote that piece of content to your warm audience. With an engagement style ad. And so that's stage one. And what you're doing with that is you're looking to find which pieces of your content hit with your audience, right? Because if you run a piece of content every week, you'll find one of them that is outperforming the others, right? Either you had a really good guest or a really good topic or something like that. And everyone in your audience was like, hey, that was really cool. And they start liking it. So that's stage one, stage two is you take that piece of content and you put it into a another engagement style ad, but you change the audience, right? And so instead of going to your warm audience, you take the proven content, the one that actually hit with your audience and you put it into a wide open targeting and say, hey, I want to show everyone who lives in the United States and speaks English, this ad. And you tell the algorithm when I'm looking for is I'm looking for that same type of engagement, right? And then you let their algorithm do the work to find the people who are going to watch that episode. And so you're using proven content that your audience likes to find other people who might be like your audience and get them and show them your content. And so what that's going to do is that second style ad, right? And we'll run those at 10, 15, 25, $50 a day, depending on the client's budget for what they're looking for. We call that a butterfly, net style ad, where you're looking to scoop up audience out of the great grand world of Facebook or YouTube or something like that. And all we're doing is we're looking to find people who watch that episode. There's no real hard calls to action. Unless you have a couple of soft calls to action in your show already. Hey, like us, subscribe to us. So they're going to see those, but there's no hard call to action. We were like, hey, go here and put your name and email address kind of thing. So we're running those butterfly style net, I'm sorry, butterfly net style ads as a second stage with a much higher dollar value of ad spend. And it's just looking to gather new people to put into your warm audience. And facebook or YouTube, you can say, hey everyone, who's watched three minutes or five minutes or 10 minutes of our podcasts, put them in another audience. Put them in this little bucket of hey, these are people that might be a good fit for us. And so if you're familiar with the way Facebook ads and YouTube ads work is you put in interests and you're like, hey, I want to find all the people who, are business owners and like this style stuff. And they have all their like built-in categories and you can try and select them. Problem with a lot of that is, it's very difficult to find your people by doing that. But when you do it this way, you're using proven content and showing it to the world and the people who watch it, they're already like proving themselves to be the right style interest. So that's the stage two is you build your own interest targeting by using your proven content to show the world that. And then the stage three, this is where the fun happens is you build a couple of style of commercials. For either your show or your business, right? So you, maybe you have a commercial, a little 30 second commercial that says, hey, it's Richard Matthews here. I realize, I see that you've been watching our pirate podcast on YouTube or on Facebook and I just wanted to let you know, we've got this, all this regular content we'd like to have you subscribe, click here, go here. And it's actually subscribed to our show, right? So a simple commercial like that, or maybe you have another commercial that is actually directly for a product or service of yours, or maybe a webinar or web class or a small product. And you build, from one to three of those commercials that I probably have one that's talking just about subscribing to your show. One, that's talking about whatever your main lead magnet is. And maybe one that talks about a sales, a sale of one of your products. And you. We'll take those one to three ads and you just run them again at a small budget, $1 to $5 a day to those engaged audiences from stage two. And then that third ad they really effective because you're following people who are a new audience, right? New people who are, you're looking to actually build your audience with. And so what you do is you run stage one all the time. It's always switching out a new video and you run stage three all the time to all the people who are in the stage, two sort of section. And then what you do is that stage two video. Every time you have your control, which is whatever's running a stage two at any time, your stage one video, you find one that's outperforming it from a percentage standpoint. We were getting like 10% likes on this one or whatever. Cause if you do it, like from a volume standpoint, you're stage two, one's always going to have higher numbers cause you're spending 10, 15, $20 a day. But so you look at, your warm audience at, every week you compare them to the one that you're running. Your stage two ads, and anytime you find one that's better, that's hitting with your audience better. You switch it out, into the stage two one. And so you're using proven content. That's hitting with your audience to build new audience, right? And so that's our sort of three-stage advertising methodology that you can use to strategically drive growth. And at the same time also drive sales and people into your funnel using your podcast. So then you're not just podcasting for the sake of podcasting. You're putting. Podcasting with leads and sales in your business. Yeah, absolutely.
Russ Johns: [00:25:18] Podcasting with a purpose, right?
Richard Matthews: [00:25:20] Oh, absolutely.
Russ Johns: [00:25:22] I love that. And I get excited about it, Richard, because I know that there's so many people that they start a podcast and they get discouraged because they don't know where to go next. They don't know what to do with it. They don't know what, so I know we're wrapping up here and I just want to send people your way. Cause there's a lot of people out there that may want to follow up and understand exactly how you can help them. So how do you enjoy people connecting with you and reaching out and making that initial connection?
Richard Matthews: [00:25:52] So if they want to find me, there's a couple of places you can either hit me up on my website. That's RichardMatthews.me and we could talk about anything from building your own brands to getting on our own podcast, which is the Hero Show. So we're always looking for entrepreneurs who have cool stories. The whole concept of our show is we're looking for entrepreneurs and telling their story through the lens of a comic book superhero. So if you either are an entrepreneur who has a cool story or know someone, you can reach out to us there or you want to build a heroic brand as what we do there. And then the other brand is our Push Button Podcast Agency. So if you either have a podcast and you want to turn it into a push button podcast where you do like we do I've got 160 episodes recorded that I haven't done anything, but show up and record for sure. We can help you do that, or you want to get to the point where you're growing your podcast, you can reach out to pushbuttonpodcats.com and you can book a demo call with us there and we got everything up. We're currently running a discount for our next, I think seven shows that we're bringing on to Push Button Podcasts. I think it's like, oh, I don't know. I think it's 70% off or something like that for our weekly stuff. And just as an FYI for your audience, if you mention that you came from the #PirateBroadcast™, we actually pay a referral fee. That's like a lifetime commission to your show as a thank you for for sending business our way. So you'd be supporting the #PirateBroadcast™ if that was a something that you were interested in starting for your own podcast.
Russ Johns: [00:27:03] Fantastic. That's fantastic. Richard it has been an amazing adventure and I would love the opportunity to have you come back and check in and develop the hero's journey as you, as it were traveling around the country and making podcasts and doing amazing things I just really appreciate you and the time that you're spending here. And I look forward to future conversations as well. Thanks again,
Richard Matthews: [00:27:26] Absolutely, I'd be happy to come back. All sorts of topics we can talk about.
Russ Johns: [00:27:30] Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's probably more than many that we can talk about. So I would love the conversation, and I'm always curious, because I've been doing this awhile, and there's a lot of different ways of looking at things and, it's always nice to be able to talk to somebody that's been doing it as well and understand some of the pieces of the puzzle that can explain it to the pirate community and hopefully spark an interest in somebody's mind that said, hey, I can do this. I am available to do this. And I just got to launch and get going. So thanks Richard for being here and as always, it's a pleasure, everyone. Thank you so much for being here, Randy. Shari Lally is in the room. Love you, Shari. Thank you so much. Stacking your funnel for later use. Absolutely. Jenny Gold, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here. I just appreciate, and really enjoy this opportunity to share people like Richard with the pirate community. Because #kindnessiscool, #smilesarefree, so you #enjoytheday. Take care, everyone.
Exit: [00:28:38] Thank you for joining the #PirateBroadcast™. If you found this content valuable, please like, comment and share it across your social media channels. I would love the opportunity to help others grow in their business. The #PirateSyndicate™ is a platform where you show up, we produce the show. It's that easy. If you want to be seen, be heard and be talked about, join the #PirateSyndicate™ today.
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