Connect with Joan Rosenberg on LinkedIn:

linkedin.com/in/joanirosenbergphd

For more information visit her websites:

DrJoanRosenberg.com

Connect with Russ Johns on LinkedIn:

linkedin.com/in/nextstepnext

For more information visit his websites:

russjohns.com/

thepiratesyndicate.com/

nextstepnext.com/

Russ Johns 0:02
Welcome to the #piratebroadcast, where we interview #interestingpeople doing #interestingthings where you can expand your connections, your community. #Kindnessiscool and #smilesarefree. Let's get this party started.

Welcome to the #piratebroadcast. I thank you so much for being here, all the gratitude in the world. I really want to thank you. If you're just arriving, make sure that you make a comment, ask questions, make sure that we understand that you're here, you're engaged. If there's anybody in #thepiratecommunity you want to connect with, let me know I'll be happy to provide introductions and access.

Also we're here to interview #interestingpeople doing #interestingthings and we have a special guest here and I just want to right now, more than any other time in my life at this point is I'm interested in gathering up a little bit of understanding about what I'm feeling. There's lots of changes going on in the world and a lot of things are taking place. We have Joan in the room, Joan Rosenberg has written a book, 90 seconds to the life you love. I just want to welcome you, Joan, thank you so much for taking the opportunity and the time to join #thepiratecommunity and share some of your gifts today with us.

Joan Rosenberg 1:37
As I said to you earlier, I'm very, very honored to be here. So thank you.

Russ Johns 1:42
One of the things that I love about your work is the idea that this sometimes people make things more complicated than they need to be.

Joan Rosenberg 1:53
Mm hmm.

Russ Johns 1:54
Your book really brought a lot of clarity in my life in order to accomplish some of the things I was feeling understanding Okay, well, I'm feeling this but what is the feeling I'm feeling and so if you could, I know you've done TED talks and you've you've written and you've done a lot of work in the subject and and so walk us through your journey and how you arrived, publishing this book and getting this out here and kind of give us a snapshot of who Joan is and network

Joan Rosenberg 2:28
Well the the story behind the story is that I and it actually really does provide a bit of context for how the book came about. I started out really as a as a quite shy sensitive child and and was frankly the youngest and the smallest in my class. When I first started school I started very young. As a result, not only did that leave me probably feeling a bit more vulnerable, but it it left me I felt like it was different that I didn't quite fit in. The thing was, is that I would keep looking over to my peers across my childhood and well into my adolescence and go, I don't feel like I fit in and don't belong there laughing in there and kind of all gathered over there together and happy and confident, and I wasn't.

The first question that I was left with in my childhood was cheese. How does somebody develop confidence? Because I should, I surely didn't have it. Then as I got into my professional life as a psychologist, what I started to notice were, excuse me patterns with the people that I was seeing. Most typically is as as difficult and complicated as our thinking can get and can kind of derail us. What I found is that one's difficulty with unpleasant feelings seem to derail either More. As a result, a second question emerged for me to wrestle with and that was what makes it so difficult for people to deal with or handle unpleasant feelings.

As the time went on, meaning decades, in this case, there's the timeline on what I began to understand is that the answer to the second question about unpleasant feelings was actually the foundational answer to the question about confidence. At that time, my ideas were formulating and and then eventually resulted in a variety of things, Ted Talk, and book followed from the TED Talk, etc. So, but it's really something that I had been working on at some level since childhood less consciously, but more consciously, probably from about 1992 on. So it's been a 25 year journey. Better.

Russ Johns 5:00
Wow. I applaud your efforts. And I know that your information and your understanding of some of the things you worked on have to be shared with more people get this out and get a global because I believe in my life I've had numerous tragedies, I've had a lot of circumstances confidence as a child, even confidence today, it's like this, this idea this I'm not worthy, and we are worthy. We are capable, we are able to do the things that we need to do. It's not necessarily that somebody's putting that on us. It's that we're feeling this from the inside out. We have to have tools and I think some of the tools that you provide are really unreal. unleashing this amazing power that we container.

Joan Rosenberg 5:59
That's right.

Russ Johns 6:01
In our psyche and our our ability to perform beyond what we anticipate and expect.

Joan Rosenberg 6:08
Mm hmm.

Russ Johns 6:09
I just really feel it's just we have to learn what the key is unlock ourselves. Some of the work that you had really resonated with me so briefly. I know this is a huge subject and that will have LinkedIn rod links in the show notes to other resources that you provide in there. I thank you for that.

Joan Rosenberg 6:32
You bet.

Russ Johns 6:32
Walk us through some of the minor steps that people can take just to think through and understand how to unlock some of these emotional attachments they have that are holding them back.

Joan Rosenberg 6:45
Well, yeah, so I think the first thing is to want us to provide people with a language and for me, it's also providing someone with the initial understanding about the answer To the question that I was raising, which is what makes it so difficult to handle unpleasant feelings? My answer to that actually comes in a formula a colleague of mine was generous enough to call it the Rosenberg reset. It seemed to capture things. I kept the language. The reset is a comes in the Formula One choice eight feelings 90 seconds.

Russ Johns 7:26
Yeah,

Joan Rosenberg 7:27
Let me break that down. It's the one choice is a choice to a choosing into awareness as opposed to avoidance. Now and those are really the paths in our life with those. It's either avoidance, we're gonna we're gonna distract or disconnect from something. Think substance use think screens or social media think food, think alcohol think. The list goes on, frankly. I think in the book I talked about at least 35 different ways to distract yourself. Then the other part that I would prefer people lean into is awareness which means being as aware of an in touch with as much of your moment to moment experience as you can handle.

My thing, choose awareness lean lean into what you're feeling. Throughout my career what I noticed is that the same feelings kept on coming up. I talk about eight unpleasant feelings and of the eight unpleasant feelings I talk about our sadness, shame, helplessness, anger, vulnerability, embarrassment, disappointment and frustration. The first question that usually follows is like, come on, where's the anxiety Where's fear? Where's guilt and there's reasons I didn't put those in. It kind of again further explained in the book but but why these are And that's really the most common question and and it's these eight, because in my experience, they're the most common everyday spontaneous reactions to things not turning out the way we perceive we need or the way we want. It's the everydayness of the fear.

Russ Johns 9:18
The thing that resonated really well with me in some of the other material you shared is that feelings are not good or bad. Correct. They're just feelings. The awareness of how you're feeling about a circumstance or something happening or you lost your keys or It's raining and you forgot your umbrella or anything like that brings up some emotional reaction.

Joan Rosenberg 9:46
Yeah

Russ Johns 9:47
It really and it just seemed like a logical way of explaining it. Joan we're so logical, it's like it makes a lot of sense for me, It just made a lot of sense to me. It's like, okay, they're neither good or bad. They're just feelings, however

Joan Rosenberg 10:08
In fact, I would prefer people not call them negative or bad. We tend not to talk about them as good anyway, but I prefer people not talking about them as bad or negative, because they're actually there for protective purposes, especially employees.

Russ Johns 10:24
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it's in our DNA for self protection and it's just in our ability to protect who we are. It's also emotional.

Joan Rosenberg 10:38
Yeah

Russ Johns 10:38
It's also there's some emotional attachments that we have to protect. Being vulnerable. can be dangerous at times, in certain circumstances.

Joan Rosenberg 10:48
Yeah. Well, it can feel that way. Vulnerability is one of the ones I talk about actually, it's the most it's the most unique one In my thinking, because it actually cuts both ways you can feel vulnerable because you feel exposed. With that the idea around vulnerability in my mind is this idea that I could get hurt or the sense that I could get hurt. Actually, that brings that I'll circle me around to what's happening right now as we continue to deal with the pandemic and economic downturn and everything else.

For me, it's a time of heightened vulnerability and that like a heightened sensitivity to Oh, I could get hurt. I prefer to call it that as opposed to anxiety. That heightened vulnerability and also cuts the other direction. Because when we choose to be vulnerable, like we take a risk to go learn a new skill or ask somebody out on a day or whatever it might be. Then we're, I think of then when we're vulnerable. in those ways, we're actually at our greatest strength. So it cuts both ways.

Russ Johns 12:07
We are strongest when we're most vulnerable.

Joan Rosenberg 12:11
That's my thinking.

Russ Johns 12:12
Okay I love that. It affords me the opportunity to lean into that a little bit more

Joan Rosenberg 12:23
Right, right and well, and Russ, let me give this secret behind that too. Because the truth is that the most common emotional outcome of being vulnerable, if it doesn't go the way we want are going to be the other seven feelings. The way we actually handle vulnerability is to trust our capacity or believe in our capacity to handle the other seven feelings I mentioned. That's going to be the most common outcome to to us taking whatever risk was just taken I want to ask you out for a date and you say, no, sorry, I'm committed already or I'm not interested or whatever. I might feel embarrassed or disappointed. Well, that's to the other day or so. The way I can go into risk taking is to know that I can handle the emotional outcome which are the other seven feelings.

Russ Johns 13:24
Hmm We all feel degrees of those eight feelings.

Joan Rosenberg 13:31
Absolutely.

Russ Johns 13:32
You might be feeling a one on embarrassment when you spill something or I might feel a seven.

Joan Rosenberg 13:41
Right?

Russ Johns 13:43
In order for us to really get to center I guess is the best way I can. For myself think about it is okay. I just need to understand why. I didn't even know need to know why. I just need to appreciate that feeling.

Joan Rosenberg 14:00
Right, well, yes, and actually, the way I would take it is that I would want somebody to kind of breathe into it. So that they're most people, the people that feel the least comfortable with unpleasant feelings are gonna do at least one of three things at a minimum, and then perhaps distract in bigger ways, as I described earlier. They're either gonna, they're either going to kind of tighten up and tighten their muscles, they'll swallow our, they will hold their breath, so that the feeling so that they don't experience the feelings in their body. The first thing that I want people to do when when they notice they're reacting to something, and the way to lean into it is take a kind of take a slower deep breath.

Russ Johns 14:50
Yeah

Joan Rosenberg 14:51
Don't hold your breath, take the breath and lean into the feeling. And then the thing that you can do is actually pay attention to you What your reaction is linked to. If you give it once you take that breath, it gives you a little bit of thinking time. You don't have to open your mouth to say anything to anybody. But then think about it and see what it see what it's attached to.

Russ Johns 15:15
I want to take a breath and I want to say hi to some of the people in the room here because it's I love the community and Michael Evans is here. Thank you so much, Michael for being here. Andy. Angie, good morning, Russ and Joan. Angie is actually the one that introduced me to you.

Joan Rosenberg 15:35
Awesome.

Russ Johns 15:36
I want to give her a hat tip and applauds to and Steve Sullivan is another one that is he's one of the kindness crew. He's a pirate. He's been here for a while. Also Tisha Hammond Good morning rush and Joan from Michigan. Thank you so much for being here all the way from Michigan. I really appreciate you Gabriel. Gabriel also has a show he does a show in the evening at five o'clock central time every day. He's another, he and I go back and forth going back. Hello, Russ Johns.

Thank you so much for being here. I love the topic of discussion. He says I'm learning more about confidence and trust in myself. He's going through the journey. He's a writer and he started doing this video thing and now he's really has he has some amazing conversations with people at night.

Joan Rosenberg 16:33
Awesome. That's great.

Russ Johns 16:35
Carol Kappas. Thank you, Carol for being here. I love the conversation and thank you so much for being here. I love this. This is so helpful. Angie says. It is helpful. That's a pirates. Howard, thank you for the conversation the other day. A good morning pirates. Gabriel love being vulnerable. It has been an important part of my growth.

Joan Rosenberg 17:02
Absolutely.

Russ Johns 17:04
I think that's a good point to highlight here. Joan is sometimes we mold ourselves to somebody else's perception of what we need to be. It takes so much energy to do that, rather than just to be who we are.

Joan Rosenberg 17:27
Absolutely. Yeah.

Russ Johns 17:29
One of the challenges I'm going through right now, and as I develop my next step and directions and the vision kind of thought process for sure. How do I want to show up?

Joan Rosenberg 17:46
Right

Russ Johns 17:46
How Do I want to spend time every day when I wake up? How do I want to enjoy myself and help others and create value in the world? What is my legacy and I've been thinking a lot about this and how I can actually anticipate and expand on that idea. Because I think a lot of us we fail to dream big enough, therefore, we stay average. I think that's our own limiting beliefs and our own inability to see are who we really are because of vulnerability.

Joan Rosenberg 18:28
Yeah, it's important. Yeah, no, I agree with you. 100%. I think part of what I watch happen is is that I see listened to people kind of question themselves. Am I worthy? Do I deserve this? Am I enough and as a result, so that in combination with your what your comment was, which is that they don't, they're not dreaming big enough. They're not putting the risk out. In front of themselves and going, I want to go for that. Right. they're holding themselves back to 100. The vision isn't there, and then to the question themselves, and as a consequence, doubt themselves so significantly, they never allow themselves to be vulnerable enough to actually go pursue the dream

Russ Johns 19:21
They don't allow themselves to be vulnerable enough to pursue their dream,

Joan Rosenberg 19:26
to take the risks to pursue the dream.

Russ Johns 19:30
Wow.

Joan Rosenberg 19:31
In fact, here's what's here's what's really interesting to me, I think you'll like this. In my mind, it's not the risk that people are afraid of. That's actually not what holds them back.Whatever it is that I need to go do, that's not actually the thing that's holding me back. The thing that's holding me back is being too concerned about what the emotional outcome if it doesn't turn out the way I want. I'm caught up in what the emotional outcome is. I'm not going to go take that risk, because I don't want to be disappointed. It's the anticipation of the disappointment, or the anticipation of the frustration, or of being embarrassed. That's the thing that actually holds me back. Not the thing I need to do not the risk itself. It's the emotional outcome that holds us back, not the risk

Russ Johns 20:24
It's the potential outcome. And possible disappointment is what really is limiting a lot of people from being

Joan Rosenberg 20:35
That's my view. Yeah. Okay.

Russ Johns 20:38
I understand and appreciate that. Because a lot of people say I can't do that when if they said how can I do that? Because the skill is something that you have to learn from day one. The person that's doing it, is learning it and the person that isn't doing it is is saying I can't do that. Correct. There's no difference in that ability to learn the skill, whatever that skill is to be.

Joan Rosenberg 21:05
Right.

Russ Johns 21:06
Okay. It's potentially in the way you're seeing it is that it's the outcome of the disappointment or the potential outcome.

Right. It's the anticipated negative outcome the anticipated unpleasant or undesired emotional outcome is the thing that ends up holding people back.

Is that the ability for us to to our first default setting is to self protect.

Joan Rosenberg 21:43
That's a good question. Probably. So yeah, again, art. I think, what it's the notion is tied to survival.

Russ Johns 21:51
Yeah. There's lions and tigers and bears that are good.

Joan Rosenberg 21:54
Exactly. That's exactly right.

Russ Johns 21:58
I think we're safe from the environmental concerns.

Joan Rosenberg 22:01
Yeah, well, we're not safe from what's in here.

Russ Johns 22:05
No, no. And it's a battlefield some days. Well, Phil. Yeah. So I really love this conversation because it's a way that we can actually unlock some of the things we're unable to articulate in our own self and when we talk to other people like yourself that have had different experiences and different exposure to this emotion. It's really like I said before, a lot of people make things so complicated when they're so simple, right?

Joan Rosenberg 22:43
Yeah. Yeah.

Russ Johns 22:44
If we allowed ourselves the opportunity to basic to make it basically would be much easier.

Joan Rosenberg 22:51
True and I will tell you that the one thing that I would want people to absolutely stop is to stop being so mean to themselves. To stop badgering themselves to stop all the negative self talk to stop what I call harsh self criticism. That to me is it's unbelievably. It's like pulls the rug right out from underneath you. In my mind exponentially damaging. It's like I don't even have the language to describe how bad I think it is for people.

Russ Johns 23:29
Yeah. Speaking language, I'm sure that there are some words that we could remove from our vocabulary. I like to remove try.

Joan Rosenberg 23:39
Yes. I like to remove can't.

Russ Johns 23:42
That's another word. Yes. Are there any others that are top of mind that you would encourage people to?

Joan Rosenberg 23:49
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's a variety. I mean, I think people get up caught up in what some people might call either or thinking it's something is either this That. I would rather have people get used to thinking that something is both and that that it's that is this and that and and that that allows for greater, greater movement, greater freedom, emotional motional and thinking freedom more flexibility, if you will. Can't wouldn't be one try would be another. It always never would be another any anything that suggests construction would be the kinds of life that was those would be the kinds of words that I would want to run those.

Russ Johns 24:38
I truly believe that the way you speak to yourself and others around you have an influence in the outcome of your life.

Joan Rosenberg 24:46
Oh, yes.

Russ Johns 24:49
If you can make a few minor changes, just a few minor changes, it makes a difference. It truly does make a difference.

Joan Rosenberg 24:56
It does make a difference because what it sets up what it sets up for If we use one set at one kind of language than we, then I'm trying to get us on camera, we have this perception that I've only got this, right. It's rigid, and it's well contained. If I use a different kind of language, then I actually have this wide range of things to do. It opens up the opportunities. The other the other thing that it does is it it gives me as if I use different language I use I have more flexibility.

Russ Johns 25:30
Yeah.

Joan Rosenberg 25:31
One is rigid and contained and constricting and the other is expansive. It is and leads to a kind of a limitless quality. The language we use makes a huge difference.

Russ Johns 25:47
Yeah. I think this information needs to be shared around the world and if everybody just took a moment and consumed this idea that you You've shared and these ideas that you continue to talk about. If we just could understand how it impacts us, how it impacts others around us. I promote the #kindnessiscool and #smilesarefree. That tool that I've used to improve my life. If I feel and I react and respond in a kind way to others around me, it seems just my days go better. I find joy in every day I find happiness in a little bit. It's like, okay, no big deal. Things go they just go smoother for me.

Joan Rosenberg 26:46
Yeah, well, we share that one way I kindness is one of my highest values. We're very aligned on that one. I love that.

Russ Johns 26:55
Yeah. Yeah. In so our mutual mission is to expand that concept and that idea, because we can, we can have conflict, we can have disagreement, and we can have difference of opinion. We can have just like your emotional something that triggers me at a one and somebody else at a nine, right? Same item, same thing.

Joan Rosenberg 27:21
Yep.

Russ Johns 27:22
We're all different, we're all unique. We need to respect and understand that we don't all have to fit in the same place in the same box and the same attitude. We should, and we need to have a little more empathy and understanding what that looks like. Your information helps that along with that.

Joan Rosenberg 27:42
Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Russ Johns 27:47
I applaud you and the efforts and the energy that you've put into this and how can we help you expand this message? What can we do to assist you in your goals?

Joan Rosenberg 27:58
Oh, that's so very kind to ask. I mean the thing is really share it and and if you have a chance to take a look at any other work that I put out there, whether it's our conversation whether, we were talking earlier, I have a LinkedIn learning course now up on their portal and it's on grief loss and change the TED Talks, you can go to my website but anything that lets people know kind of the message especially around these eight feelings and and the premise really is if you can experience and move through those eight feelings you can go pursue anything you want in life.

That's really kind of the ultimate message. I'd be honored if people went to the website, dr.johnRosenberg.com. There's actually some free downloads there if people want and there's a PDF of my easier anxiety book that's that's actually available for free right now. Please share that's all I can say

Russ Johns 29:02
All the appreciation in the world and gratitude for being here. I just want to come back to the we've got some other people in the room I am ancient love your music love your thank you so much for being here. That would be wonderful. I would love to be able to have you speak with his music in the background he's he's done that with them James and collaboration. That would be kind of coolest you know, some collaboration there to get the message out. Sherry, lolly Good evening are caught are caught is in the other side of the world if I missed anyone Hi. The book 90 seconds to a life you love by Joan rose book is amazing. So thank you so much for sharing that fantastic was late.

Okay. Another solid interview, Russ. Thanks, Russ, appreciate you for being a pirate and be a part of the community here. I thank you so much. I love this. I love the community, Joan, because there's so many people that are amazing. If you're not connected to Joan reach out to her, she's on LinkedIn. And we'll share all of that on RussJohn's.com. Know that #interestingpeople doing #interestingthings is just a step in the right direction to express your kindness and generosity in some way, shape or form. Expand your understanding of what it is to be part of the community. Share your kind of generosity with others, and these ideas will expand. Joan, thank you so much for being here. I really truly appreciate you and the work that you're doing so,

Joan Rosenberg 30:57
Russ Russ, I'm honored and very very grateful. So I'm holding you in my heart.

Russ Johns 31:02
Thank you so much. I appreciate that. As everyone knows, #kindnessiscool, #smilesarefree. So you #enjoytheday. Take care.

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