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in Ottawa of Jeff Jay Andrews.
[0:09] Good morning everyone it's the pirate broadcast and we are here live on a Friday,
morning or an afternoon with John and we are we are going to be bringing you interesting people doing interesting things and we have none other than John Experian,
who's an amazing technical copywriter and also pretty savvy in the linked in worlds that are going to be diving and a few things like that.
Few housekeeping efforts here.
You could you can find the PIRATE broadcast follow the hashtag pirate broadcast on LinkedIn also.
If you follow me or you connect with me I'd love that. I'd appreciate it. Much gratitude.
And we're also on YouTube Facebook and around social media as well.
So follow me on those platforms and I'd love to share information and provide value every day.
And so John Good. Good day for you. It's in the afternoon.
[1:09] Good afternoon for me. Good morning for you. Nice to be here. Thanks. This is my first experience of length in life. So thank you ma'am.
[1:17] Welcome welcome welcome. I love the fact that we can we can bring people into the linked and live arena that have not had the experience yet or have,
really you do video however you do narrative video a lot of on your on your on your,
profile in your in your field.
[1:38] I got it's stuff. Yeah that's right. I have experimented with live video before on Facebook.
That was like three years ago just to kind of get a feel for what life video was all about but then linked in.
Never had that facility until now. So I'm kind of just dipping my toe.
[1:54] Well the reality is is you've been in content creation for a lot of years.
I mean you content creation has been really prevalent the last five years I would imagine that I don't know when you started doing real real heavy content marketing. Yes.
But tell us how you got here. I mean why technical copywriting.
I mean what's your love of writing and you posted an article on proofreading and it's like bad.
Sign me up because like I just I just create it and put it out there.
[2:29] So yeah well the short story is that I spent about 10 years as a software tester and a quality assurance manager.
Oh what was that guy in-house who used to look at manuals that would sometimes be translated from Chinese and and people in the office with you know how how does this work.
And I'd be the guy who they'd come to you would explain it in simple terms,
translating many many pages of documentation.
[2:58] You decided that you were going to throw your hat in the ring and say hey I'm going to be a copywriter.
[3:03] Yeah I mean it was just you know there was a redundancy and then I thought well what can I do with my money my superpower if I have one is explaining how stuff works.
So I thought well let me try to do that as an independent writer and then I'm 10 years later still doing it.
In terms of getting on LinkedIn Well I experimented with all the different social platforms and I tried to be everywhere. Nothing worked for me.
And the only kind of a light bulb went off about three years ago and I thought well I work in B to be where with the place to be b if I wanted to target my clients Yeah.
So I thought let's just go all in on this instead of just trying to be everywhere.
I'm only one guy right. Just try and go narrow instead of going broad.
And that's really paid off well.
[3:54] So I think I think the reality is is that.
You know we can be everywhere for the real estate and we can only really be an authority in a few spots.
And it's a play you know there are some people out there that have teams of people that make it look really easy.
And it actually takes a lot of work and effort in order to achieve results on any platform.
You know the amount of effort that you put into this John or the amount of effort that anyone has to develop workflows systems things like this to actually,
be a real content creator and in publishing a lot of content it takes it takes a little bit of time and effort.
So I thought I'd love your efforts and thank you for being so very helpful on the platform.
[4:44] So Oh you're welcome. I mean my my natural style is to poke and prod as many different buttons and menus as I can and just learn what works.
And then I just like to share information. So if I found you know a new page a new setting a new way of doing things,
I don't really believe in keeping that stuff to myself because know the Internet has kind of democratized the way that we consume on information that they hope will tell you someone else is going to.
[5:11] So that was my share and that's a breath of fresh air because you know the old adage you know the Industrial Revolution mindset is that if we keep it secret,
and we we don't let anybody know how the sausage is made we can make better sausage. And the reality is is that.
I mean we. You're in the UK. I'm in the US.
You know the likelihood that we're we're going to compete actually compete.
And I don't really like that phrase anymore because it's it is likely to be zero.
[5:47] I mean it's it's on YouTube there's more than enough work out there for everyone.
There's abundance and it just really continues to grow.
And if we help each other we will actually both benefit because there's clients. I I'm not a technical copywriter.
I need technical I need copywriting on a regular basis.
So why wouldn't I reach out to John because I've had a conversation with you.
I know you. I trust you I know people that know you and the beautiful thing about it is we had Jeff on we had Vicky on and it's like they live within hours of each other.
[6:24] And you're the one that interest is there's them your you on the Internet work study course yes separately and I thought well look you're in the same state together and have a chance.
So. And so that was.
And then they sent me this. That's what I was showing you earlier. The difference in emoticons came across the Atlantic because of they made.
[6:48] That is freakin brilliant.
[6:50] I want to give a shout out to Sherry Vicky at Vicky.
[6:55] She's awesome. So Sherry give examples if you have one hundred five hundred and a thousand to spend.
[7:05] Where would you put that investment into your business.
[7:11] That's a great question. That's an interesting question. Well I mean I'm I don't know if I can answer that one authoritatively because what my belief is that if you rely on ads,
you're in for a long term losing game.
I would much rather prefer building up a long term set of relationships with people through your content through conversation.
Social media is a brilliant for that because you can you can jump in and get involved in comments you can get involved in direct messages behind the scenes and you can get to know people and build that kind of know like and trust factor.
It takes a lot longer if you if you say to me now you know I've got five thousand dollars and I need results today.
Yeah. And me talking about building relationships that's not going to save your business from crumbling right now.
But if you're planning to be around in the long term which I sincerely hope that everyone is.
Then if you have what Mark Schaefer refers to as a 30 month mindset if you create content that answers people's questions and gives them something helpful that that doesn't try to sell to them.
[8:23] That's the way to to just engender trust over time it takes a lot longer to pay off.
But I'm now seeing the results of the effort that I put in three years ago when my LinkedIn was just full of tumbleweed and I didn't really know anyone and I wasn't getting any referrals.
But now I've got a big network I've got loads of people who know who I am who will happily refer work to me because I've shown trust in them.
They see the trust in me and that work.
So that might if I were to spend a budget on anything it would be to have that long term content creation plan.
And that that takes time and takes can take a bit of money if you need some external support but you end up building this content footprint that demonstrates your shape in the world.
This is what I'm talking about in the book that I'm that I'm writing at the moment is defining your shape and sticking around long enough for it to imprint itself on people's minds so that you become the go to person when they think,
who can help me with X you become that guy.
[9:28] Well then I think I think you bring up a couple of good points and I want to unpack in a little bit more for for Sherri is is that when your business is based on purchase of ad spend,
soon as you quit spending adds to the top off. Yeah you turn the tap off.
[9:47] Things will go down when you develop long term relationships and a referral solution for your business.
[9:54] And you develop content creation that's valuable and helpful like John was speaking about.
It's a it's a much longer startup. You know it's not like the hockey puck that goes straight up.
It's more it's more with the relationship and developing the conversations around community and building a community and a culture around your business. And.
[10:19] Combining the two if you look at the data. If you have a body of work and you create like John was suggesting a library of content that is very useful helpful and provides value to the to the community and then you can,
accelerate that content creation process in that that expansion of content through paid ads and then go through that process.
So so the number one thing that I would start with if you're just starting out as a business is create content create a lot of content create as much content as you could stand and create,
with the time you have available.
So I mean would you agree with that.
[11:02] I mean yeah I do. I think the most important thing is to make sure that your content is has a high enough value high enough utility for people to want to share it. There's no point creating content that doesn't get seen.
[11:16] So you know I see so much low value content some subs stuff that sales zeal that's just too self-referential if you like you know aren't we great.
[11:27] No one case I had really great here.
[11:30] Here's a great tip John that that has worked really well for me,
is you can create a just go on do a screen capture software of any kind and just create a screen capture of a tip that someone could use to improve their profile.
Yeah like a custom header using canvas. I did that video.
It's it's actually my profile. There's a link there and teaches you how to,
grade your profile header using can a simple free tool,
and then you can if you see someone that has something that they could upgrade and you notice that they have noticed your profile and I and I created this simple free tool and you DMM and you put it out there and you just,
offer the value and people are going wow that's that's great. Thank you.
I did have one person say what's wrong with my header.
It's like nothing is wrong with your head. I just I just offering a.
A piece of value here that you can use it or not. You don't have to. Yeah. This is what I want.
[12:39] I try and focus on it all of my content is just something with high levels of helpfulness or utility if you like.
Yeah. And I've come up with an acronym that I that I recommend to people to think about for their content which is chair.
That's challenging helpful amusing interesting and relevant if you can hit a couple of those high level themes in your content.
Yeah do that on a consistent basis. Then you'll start to create stuff that people will want to talk about will want to share,
and then people check out more of your profile on LinkedIn the profile of user your lottery tickets you know they're the things that you want to try to maximize because a small proportion of those people are going to turn into customers.
So the more people you can get consuming your content enjoying it than checking you out on your profile.
The proportion of those people will turn into customers. This is what has happened for me.
Just takes a while for it to work and that's that's the message that people struggle with you know from what's not easy button.
[13:41] You can get it when you can get a package from Amazon tomorrow.
It's much easier for the instant gratification to kick in and really you know it's life is quick. Life is fast.
Technology is changing every day we can't wake up you know and like like when Jeff was on the show we were talking.
He was like yeah I'll look at my profile and there had been changes already so that's going to be more commonplace than we'd like to imagine.
However I really believe that longer term building community and relationship is going to be the really the longer lasting opportunity that we have.
So I want to give a shout out to Kenyatta Kenyatta's actually on a Tuesday.
[14:26] She's going to be joining us on Tuesday on this show so she's awesome.
[14:32] Vicky Angie,
Angie loves proofreading by the way John so she's she's great.
Well I actually I have a confession to make.
My son sent me a text message with a screenshot in it.
This is a proofread your stuff that it rewards but it's like,
clean it up. George Jessica.
[15:05] Oh man. Just a lot of people joining in. Charlie.
Brenda thank you so much for being here. Everybody we've got John Experian and we're talking about content creation relationship building and and building a community around your your ideas and your your value that you're bringing to the table.
And when you when you really come down to sharing a gift because I believe everybody has a gift.
John and you you had the opportunity to share that in a relevant way over and over again it just people show up and start asking for help with what you're doing.
Is that been your experience. That's been my experience anyway.
[15:47] So yes it is. I mean as I said to you at the beginning my my superpower is being able to explain stuff.
And the thing that really gives me a thrill is when you get a reaction where people go Oh why didn't someone just say that to begin with.
You know that's I get it now. Yeah I love that when I went to get that from someone who was struggling with something and I've taken them to somewhere where they understand that now and the world's okay again.
Yeah. That's a great feeling. So so that's the kind of stuff I would like to do even if I weren't being paid.
So it happens to be my job to explain stuff but it's something I like to do.
And this is what I tried to do in my linked in content as well.
So yeah it's really important to try and dial into why you're doing what you're doing what your place of happiness is in in your work,
and if you're fortunate enough like me to be able to do something that you enjoy then then obviously it will seep out in ways and people will be attracted to that that enjoyment that you show.
[16:51] Absolutely. And you know it is so amazing because there are things like that that when you're in that time kind of disappears and you're just kind of like in the groove and you know that it's bringing you joy every day.
And it becomes something that you become passionate about and it's really exciting to be able to get in the spot.
[17:13] So the thing I want to say about that as well though is is I think I alluded to this earlier it will take time if you're going from a standing start.
And most of the people who consume your stuff on LinkedIn or indeed any online social community will be in the lurker category.
Yeah. I call the consumer category in my book and they're the people who never show up. I mean that they're there they're behind the velvet rope looking at what you're doing but you just can't see them.
Right. Right. And and for the first nine months or something when I was going hard on LinkedIn from the start of 2017 I mean precisely nothing happened I was like I was talking to a brick wall.
But because I had studied content marketing I kind of knew that people are out there.
People will be interested in this niche. You know I've got I've got a sustainable business idea.
Yeah I just needed to push through and keep going until those people start to come from behind velvet rope and go high. This is actually quite good.
Yeah I'm not doing anything different to what I was doing back then.
I'm just reaping the rewards now and too many people just give up too soon because they just don't see the signs of progress early on. So you really need to stick at it.
[18:31] And then from a marketing perspective to you know it's I've had clients that you know you create a website form or you create an email list or you create some automation or you do some some something.
[18:44] So like Web sites you know Web site 1.0 it was essentially a brochure on the on the Internet you know.
And then it became something more. And it's evolving over time and people say you know social media a lot of times it's like well yeah I had a YouTube page or I had a Facebook page it didn't do anything for my business my I don't my customers aren't on Facebook.
Well that's not really accurate. Your customers are just not showing up as customers.
It's not hey I'm a customer of yours or I'm I'm I want to buy your stuff.
It's it's more like you have to actually encourage the conversation to take place on social media because the choices that people have it's not a billboard going down the highway is not the only billboard on the street. It's.
The choice is endless. And so the mindset of the individual and the business has to change too.
To adopt the digital mindset because you know abundance is here and choices are an option and we have to understand that when we're creating content we actually continue. It's a long game.
It's not a short game it's not an overnight success it's a day long game.
And when you show up people people find you. It's amazing how people can find you or the content that you wrote a year ago.
[20:05] Yeah that's right. I mean once you once you once you get a fan that will go into your back catalogue and see the stuff that you did years ago when no one knew who you were.
I was looking at some sort of a stock in my book which is although I don't run a podcast myself I do contribute to one.
But the average number of episodes of podcasts before they in a day they die off is seven.
I just I mean imagine how many failed podcasts there are there because of running and lot lack of,
kind of the bigger picture of saying you know we need to stick at this whereas you see people with who've made hundreds of episodes and surprise surprise that they're successful.
[20:47] It's amazing.
[20:48] It's like it only took me 10 years to make it look this easy right now that the whole overnight success thing is rubbish isn't it just a lot of people discovering me for the first time on LinkedIn.
Yeah it's much easier for you because you've got this big network and blah your.
You get hundreds of comments on your posts.
Yeah but go and look back at 2017 and then come let's have a talk then let's have another conversation.
[21:13] And if you're looking to find out where Jon can be found right here linked in Jon experience yeah I'm desperate.
[21:21] Very unusual surname so I'm very easy to find.
[21:24] It's it's great. Go connect with him and make sure that you comment on his videos you engage with them because engagement allows us to build reputation in,
a relationship you know and have a conversation with them and you know it's like.
I asked people all the time to get on the show in the program and it's very easy.
I'm booking people in January now and it it's it's like there's so many people that,
have so many gifts that I just think it's really important for us to build a community around these ideas and these concepts because it's,
it's amazing to me how often people underestimate what actually takes place in you know day to day activity.
So what do you do to find joy in your day.
I mean writing is one piece but what else brings you joy in your day.
[22:23] Now if I could have chosen the career I wanted I would have been a professional footballer.
That's the proper kind of football not the oval shaped thing that you guys throw around.
But there were a couple of blockers which is one my weight and to my complete lack of skill.
So there is now that the minor things.
Yeah. So now the thought would have been my deal.
I'd love to have been a sports writer for example I'd be fantastic actually just aims and then write about them. I'll be at the bottom.
Yeah I like sci fi I like. I love football I love. I'm deep into the Apple Mac ecosystem.
OK. I've been a Mac friend for more than 20 years now and I enjoy spending time with my daughter who's 10 now and this is frighteningly intelligent.
Liver problems can me out of the way soon and taking over all this junk.
[23:17] Oh it's amazing how much information they can consume though. I mean compared to when we were 10. Right.
[23:23] Wow. I mean just just the idea of the Internet and mobile phones and tablets and it's just it was all alien.
You know I mean I didn't that was dial up modem until I was probably 20.
So you know it's just a different world isn't it. But it's a little different. It's a little different. There we go.
[23:40] So walk us through the process. So what would a typical client engagement look like.
I mean it's like OK like right now you know my my LinkedIn profile isn't what it could be.
You know it's like a cobblers Joe the Plumber sink always leaks kind of acceptance like OK,
I can I can continue to update and upgrade my profile you know ever seeing it from a new perspective is oftentimes a better choice because yeah,
I mean you know my limiting beliefs and my imposter syndrome and everything kicks in writing something for myself.
[24:20] It's like yeah I know you know there's no substitute for getting a second pair of eyes on your conscience.
So if we're talking about what a link then review would look like I'd focus first and foremost on,
the headline because I thought some one piece of text other than your name which you can't change other than your name the headline is the one piece of text that follows you around every part of LinkedIn whenever you get reference your headline is that right.
Makes it an incredibly important piece of strategic content. Yeah.
And in the book I talk about chunking your headline into three sections that attend three things so you need to be interesting.
You need to be informative and you need to be intriguing to all of those things into 120 characters.
[25:14] Specifically the first 40 characters is very important to get right because on mobile the first 40 characters is all you will see when you look at someone's post or their comments right in the feet.
Right. So you can't click to expand and see the whole thing but you'll only see the first 40.
So what you want is to condense that into kind of like a stock cube of of a very clear interesting different information that makes it clear what you do.
So would it be possible to write your your headline to almost complement or accelerate the use of your elevator pitch so to speak.
What. Yeah I mean that is the my approach is that you should as a brand if you think of yourself as a brand you need to define four or five brand values that define your shape in the world.
And then you need to pick one of those as your anchor value and condense that down into the first 40 characters that says what.
What is it that you do and who you serve and how that special it in some way.
And that's really really hard to do in 40 characters. But this is what I go into in the book the next 60 characters is for information so for things like FCO keywords I will expand on the context of those first 40.
Then you've got 20 characters left.
[26:40] Brandon What.
[26:42] Brandon Miller asks if you have gotten a response to the last part of your headline.
[26:46] John Oh yeah lots. The last part is what I call the bravery badge right. So I've written not a douche canoe.
[26:56] Linked back to something else it's in my book which is to define the person that you don't want to serve in your business.
So you need to define the person that you do want to serve which is what I call a pen portrait.
So I want to define the opposite which is a poison portrayed the kind of person that you want to just run a mile away from when you see them. Okay.
In my case it's this guy who's a sales douche canoe slicked back hair you know ghost lakes and very entitled and always late to meetings.
It's a sales douche canoe and I'm I'm I'm just kind of saying that I'm not that and people sometimes connect with me and say you know I found that funny or. What does this mean.
And the whole point of it is it's something memorable and it's a conversation starter.
Yeah. The one key thing to business on LinkedIn,
is getting involved in more conversations you can do it in two ways publicly in comments which are the gold standard on LinkedIn that's how to get engagement and drive your post to go further and privately through direct messages.
And when you connect with people you want to start a direct message conversation with them.
You have a point trying to connect with 200 people because you've never going to get a chance to have conversations with a number of people per day.
Yeah but but but something like a bravery badge and not a douche canoe for me not starts conversations that makes more people more interested.
It will turn some people off as well a little thing. Who's this concept.
[28:24] People you may not want to attract if they don't have the humor in it or the the the reason it's there.
[28:31] Yeah it's one of the key lessons I've learned this year from a conference I was speaking speaking to an American content marketer called Doug Kessler and he said that your.
That your marketing should be like a filter or magnet it should attract but it also has a job to do in repelling it must repel tells the people that are not your people.
Oh so the kind of people who would never want to see someone go on stage and speak in a T-shirt with with with a cartoon on it or two prefer to douche canoes or use emojis in the past.
They're not for me and that's fine. That's great. I wanted to filter those those people out but the people who do like it they'll be more likely to turn into customers because they resonate with something that I'm trying to do.
[29:18] That's awesome. That's awesome.
[29:21] Well John this has been tremendous. And and it's it's an opportunity to learn more about who John Experian is and share a little bit.
I just want to go back. Marion Gerry.
Jessica thank you so much Brenda for the comments said I just can't call.
[29:45] Kenyatta looked forward on Tuesday Seth Marlowe appreciate you.
All of these individuals took time out today and followed up and joined in the conversation in I would love the opportunity to have,
length and provide an easier access for this rather than me distracting my conversation off the phone.
However we got what we got right now and it's a beautiful thing and I appreciate every moment of it because,
I get to talk with people like John and and share comments and respond back to comments and I appreciate all the gratitude the world of you being here John and everybody in the comments.
And if you're if you're listening to this in the future just do hashtag reply so I know that you're watching it afterward and I can I can follow up with you as well.
As I said as suggested in the intro,
on YouTube Facebook and also you can find me on all social platforms.
So just just love to connect with you.
A love to have a conversation. Love to hear what you're looking for what's what information would be valuable and helpful.
[31:02] A lot of times we do mindset and Linked In and marketing and some things on on the pirate broadcasts but it's all about bringing your gifts from interesting people doing interesting things.
[31:14] So John thank you so much. When's your book due out.
It's coming out at the end of April 20 20 April 20 20.
Awesome. All right now not far away it's going to happen quickly 20 20 I can't believe it's 20 20.
Oh well thank you so much John have a fabulous Friday and a wonderful weekend kindness you won't have any questions.
You bet. Anytime kindness is cool smiles are free and you enjoy the day.
[31:47] Good stuff.